Solenoid Maintenance

[Robert56]

Solenoid Maintenance should be done annually. One of the biggest reasons for backfires is a sticking open N2O noid, or a leaking solenoid. On dry hits this can be addressed with redundant noids. NOS sells a safety kit for progressing that has the extra N2O noid (redundant), a safety noid is what they cal it IIRC. The other major reason for back fires is the fuel noid failing to open or partially opening and resulting lean condition. Dry hits do not have this issue as there is no fuel noid to hang up and injectors going bad are so far and few to really be a non issue. So if we stay on top of our solenoids we will likely add to the over all safety of our kits. In the late model EFI car we normally have a front entrance plastic manifold, these can blow apart and dislodge the fuel rails and cause a nasty fire. There just is no easy escape for the expanding explosion, so the easist path is through the side of the plastic intake. Many have burned to the ground due to sticking open N2O solenoid, so safety is job 1. Someone asked for a how-to and I found this video from Cold Fusion. I used to work at a nitrous company that sold Cold Fusion and their products are fine. Most all companies get their noids from the same place stated in the video, so this should be a good general coverage video.

BroadBand;

http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/dvd/SOLENOIDMAINTBB.wmv

and dial up:

http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/dvd/SOLENOINDMAINTMD.wmv

Robert

[Vitamin E]

Originally Posted by Robert56

someone asked for a how to and I found this video from Cold Fusion.

http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/dvd...OIDMAINTBB.wmv

and dial up

Thanks!

[WarMachine762]

Great Info. Thank you sir!

[BakaN20]

Good info, i have some of their videos saved on my computer

[djlowfreq]

Thanks for the info above. And as was pointed out to me by the ''Master'' a few months back ...... Clean the screens and filters inline!!! If you don't have a filter get one! I fill my own bottles and now I make sure that all filters are cleaned regularly. I haven't had a backfire since then

[mikepe]

Originally Posted by Robert56

Solenoid Maintenance should be done annually. One of the biggest reasons for backfires is a sticking open N2O noid, or a leaking solenoid. On dry hits this can be addressed with redundant noids. NOS sells a safety kit for progressing that has the extra N2O noid (redundant), a safety noid is what they cal it IIRC. The other major reason for back fires is the fuel noid failing to open or partially opening and resulting lean condition. Dry hits do not have this issue as there is no fuel noid to hang up and injectors going bad are so far and few to really be a non issue. So if we stay on top of our solenoids we will likely add to the over all safety of our kits. In the late model EFI car we normally have a front entrance plastic manifold, these can blow apart and dislodge the fuel rails and cause a nasty fire. There just is no easy escape for the expanding explosion, so the easist path is through the side of the plastic intake. Many have burned to the ground due to sticking open N2O solenoid, so safety is job 1. Someone asked for a how-to and I found this video from Cold Fusion. I used to work at a nitrous company that sold Cold Fusion and their products are fine. Most all companies get their noids from the same place stated in the video, so this should be a good general coverage video.

BroadBand;

http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/dvd/SOLENOIDMAINTBB.wmv

and dial up:

http://www.coldfusionnitrous.com/dvd/SOLENOINDMAINTMD.wmv

Robert

Hi,

I haven't used my car or nitrous for at least 5 years, NOS longer. I checked the solenoid and didn't see any wear on the seal. Is it necessary to change anything at this point, and the filter should be right before entering the solenoid correct ?
Appreciate the help.

Mike

[Robert56]

I would say with a good going over like you have done, everything should be fine. Sometimes after sitting a long time corrosion can occur and cause hanging up, so just be sure everything internally is nice and clean. Double check all of your wiring, also for corrosion and/or loose connections.

If it were my setup, i would do a test firing in to cans set up to catch the fuel and tie off the N2O line so it doesn't flap all around. Set the window SW low on the RPMs, make sure the WOT SW is by-passed (a jumper wire terminal to terminal will work) (if using a TPS SW, just set the on voltage so spray comes on lower in the RPM band). Now when going to the selected on RPM it should spray, and we don't have to go WOT for this test. At the same time I would set the off RPM about 500rpm higher than the on, this way we make sure the WS is working on both the high and low rpm settings. That's how I blew a hole in my LS6 intake, no high RPM shut off and it hit the limiter ('02 Vette), which in turn kills the fuel supply, and a subsequent high RPM LEAN back-fire.

On this test session I was using only a RPM activation SW, not a true WS. So it was not a failure of the Dry technology, but rather a failure of the drivers ability, by missing a shift and not having the safety parameters in place, lol. Anyway, we can also see that in general the dry back fires are less severe compared to the wet kits due to less fuel vapors in the intake tract (picture below). Many times on the wet back fires (late model EFI cars), due to the fuel in the intake tract (fuel puddling) the explosion is so bad that it will shatter the intake and dislodge the fuel rails. This in turn sprays fuel everywhere, even if the key was turn off immediately it takes an amount of time for the fuel pressure to bleed off, suppling the ever expanding fire. Now of course this does not happen to everyone, or even that often, but can happen and the reason we want to always stay on top of servicing our kits. I am a fan of redundant noids, esp on the dry kits, but that's for another talk.

At this same time, once we verify that it comes on and off like it should, we can take the A/F ratio at WOT (after putting the system back together), then make adjustments as needed. We also want to verify timing being pulled if you have that set-up. I would keep the size of the shot lower while testing, then bump it up to where ever you feel once it's known it's working good and like it should.

Good luck. Maybe think about keeping track of everything you do, and how you did it, for some sort of write-up? A system that has been sitting for 5-years needs considerations that new kits don't require. I think this could help many in the same boat. There are so many guys buying used kits, and often their first kits, so this type of a how-to, write-up would be very useful. Just an idea at this point, but should you put something together, i would be more than happy to host it on my site. I have some other write ups that members have done, however, I haven't got them on my site yet (one on setting the InterFace up on a LTx is very nice and we need to get it hosted). Of course you get full credit and copyright coverage. Anyone reading along, if you have something that you would like to share, let me know. That is the main premise of my site, helping others set up their kits with general information.

One of the best add on safety goodies we can run is an a/f ratio shut down. There are a couple on the market to add to existing kits, or we can get one included in our window SW choice. The MicroEdge WS has so many extras it's almost a no brainer to me, lol. It can be set up with the cars stock narrow band sensor, or we can run it with our add on wide band. But at least it's there to help with safety from the get go. I have added this WS as my controller of choice due to the a/f ratio shut down feature, along with many other great features.

Sorry that I went on and on, lol, but hopefully someone will get some useful information, lol.
Robert

Edit: Here's the result of running with out a window SW and hitting the rev limiter which pulled the fuel. A high RPM lean back-fire. This can happen also with a sticking open nitrous noid, or partially stuck.

[mikepe]

Originally Posted by Robert56

I would say with a good going over like you have done, everything should be fine. Sometimes after sitting a long time corrosion can occur and cause hanging up, so just be sure everything internally is nice and clean. Double check all of your wiring, also for corrosion and/or loose connections.

If it were my setup, i would do a test firing in to cans set up to catch the fuel and tie off the N2O line so it doesn't flap all around. Set the window SW low on the RPMs, make sure the WOT SW is by-passed (a jumper wire terminal to terminal will work) (if using a TPS SW, just set the on voltage so spray comes on lower in the RPM band). Now when going to the selected on RPM it should spray, and we don't have to go WOT for this test. At the same time I would set the off RPM about 500rpm higher than the on, this way we make sure the WS is working on both the high and low rpm settings. That's how I blew a hole in my LS6 intake, no high RPM shut off and it hit the limiter ('02 Vette), which in turn kills the fuel supply, and a subsequent high RPM LEAN back-fire.

On this test session I was using only a RPM activation SW, not a true WS. So it was not a failure of the Dry technology, but rather a failure of the drivers ability, by missing a shift and not having the safety parameters in place, lol. Anyway, we can also see that in general the dry back fires are less severe compared to the wet kits due to less fuel vapors in the intake tract (picture below). Many times on the wet back fires (late model EFI cars), due to the fuel in the intake tract (fuel puddling) the explosion is so bad that it will shatter the intake and dislodge the fuel rails. This in turn sprays fuel everywhere, even if the key was turn off immediately it takes an amount of time for the fuel pressure to bleed off, suppling the ever expanding fire. Now of course this does not happen to everyone, or even that often, but can happen and the reason we want to always stay on top of servicing our kits. I am a fan of redundant noids, esp on the dry kits, but that's for another talk.

At this same time, once we verify that it comes on and off like it should, we can take the A/F ratio at WOT (after putting the system back together), then make adjustments as needed. We also want to verify timing being pulled if you have that set-up. I would keep the size of the shot lower while testing, then bump it up to where ever you feel once it's known it's working good and like it should.

Good luck. Maybe think about keeping track of everything you do, and how you did it, for some sort of write-up? A system that has been sitting for 5-years needs considerations that new kits don't require. I think this could help many in the same boat. There are so many guys buying used kits, and often their first kits, so this type of a how-to, write-up would be very useful. Just an idea at this point, but should you put something together, i would be more than happy to host it on my site. I have some other write ups that members have done, however, I haven't got them on my site yet (one on setting the InterFace up on a LTx is very nice and we need to get it hosted). Of course you get full credit and copyright coverage. Anyone reading along, if you have something that you would like to share, let me know. That is the main premise of my site, helping others set up their kits with general information.

One of the best add on safety goodies we can run is an a/f ratio shut down. There are a couple on the market to add to existing kits, or we can get one included in our window SW choice. The MicroEdge WS has so many extras it's almost a no brainer to me, lol. It can be set up with the cars stock narrow band sensor, or we can run it with our add on wide band. But at least it's there to help with safety from the get go. I have added this WS as my controller of choice due to the a/f ratio shut down feature, along with many other great features.

Sorry that I went on and on, lol, but hopefully someone will get some useful information, lol.
Robert

Hi Robert

Been with this kit now for 12+years, always take safety precautions always ensuring I have proper fuel etc. Been running the system with a Jacobs Mastermind, this checks to see if fuel pressure is good, retards timing, stages it for me and rev limiter if something is a miss will not fire. This is on an 88 Mitsubishi Starion.

Regards,
Mike

[MurdeЯ]

Cheap insurance and cheaper than a motor and/or paint job :yes:

[Robert56]

Originally Posted by mikepe

Hi Robert

Been with this kit now for 12+years, always take safety precautions always ensuring I have proper fuel etc. Been running the system with a Jacobs Mastermind, this checks to see if fuel pressure is good, retards timing, stages it for me and rev limiter if something is a miss will not fire. This is on an 88 Mitsubishi Starion.

Regards,
Mike

I have been looking at the Mastermind for a long time, seems to be a very nice controller. IIRC, the price is the only draw back, but I guess you get what you pay for, in most cases, lol. Do you know what todays price is? Sounds like your on top of things and thus no real problems. I like to think I am also on top of my kit safety wise, but running with out a high RPM cut-off was a dumb mistake on my part. I had talked my self in to running it with just the rpm activation, thinking I wll never miss a shift, lol. I can slam gears pretty good, but of course this one day with out a WS, I miss a shift and the rpms skyrocketed right into the rev limiter and kill the fuel, lol. I will never run with out all safety items again, lol.

I added the intake picture to the last post of mine.
Robert

[mikepe]

Originally Posted by Robert56

I have been looking at the Mastermind for a long time, seems to be a very nice controller. IIRC, the price is the only draw back, but I guess you get what you pay for, in most cases, lol. Do you know what todays price is? Sounds like your on top of things and thus no real problems. I like to think I am also on top of my kit safety wise, but running with out a high RPM cut-off was a dumb mistake on my part. I had talked my self in to running it with just the rpm activation, thinking I wll never miss a shift, lol. I can slam gears pretty good, but of course this one day with out a WS, I miss a shift and the rpms skyrocketed right into the rev limiter and kill the fuel, lol. I will never run with out all safety items again, lol.

I added the intake picture to the last post of mine.
Robert

Robert,

Not sure you to sell them ways back again about 12+years ago. What I like about it especially with my turbo car is that I have it set to go off at a set rpm, then a second shot at a higher set rpm, so I can run a larger kit staged. Beyoond that my car is heavily modified running 22-25 lbs of boost. Been doing this for 20+years, and the guy that set the Nos was known as one of the top Nos guys. Job from Turbo People in Hastings NY. The mastermind was tricky being on an import. So not sure of what they go for now back then I bought at my price for about $260-280 or so.

[Robert56]

Originally Posted by djlowfreq

Thanks for the info above. And as was pointed out to me by the ''Master'' a few months back ...... Clean the screens and filters inline!!! If you don't have a filter get one! I fill my own bottles and now I make sure that all filters are cleaned regularly. I haven't had a backfire since then

Missed this the first time through. You bring up a very good point about the screened fittings. Many guys buying used kits won't even know they have a screened fitting, not good. Some kits use them, some don't. It might be wise on used kits to pull the fittings out of the solenoid and check if there and if dirty.

I have a big inline filter at my bottle, then a screened fitting at my noid. Why? What I have discovered is this, most refill stations have a filter, so our refills generally are good, if not our inline catches the debri. However, after the inline is where we can get into trouble. Mostly what I have seen as debri after the inline is pieces of sealer, pieces of inside hose cuttings, pieces of the threads. So if we don't have a way to catch after the inline debri, we will still have a chance of getting a stuck open noid. I have never really figured out why all the companies say to mount the filter at the bottle and not at the noids? maybe just ease and one type of install fits all needs?
Robert

[Heretic]

Isn't it weird that everybody claims to have the best solenoids, but most company's (if not all?) use Peter Paul Electronics Solenoids. I know NX does, and so does Cold Fushion. Pretty Sure NOS, Eledelbrock, Compucar, etc all use Peter Paul noids with there stickers on the can.

Ahh Mark Up!

[MurdeЯ]

But we can't buy from PeterPaul. Corp. accounts only.

[Robert56]

Originally Posted by Heretic

Isn't it weird that everybody claims to have the best solenoids, but most company's (if not all?) use Peter Paul Electronics Solenoids. I know NX does, and so does Cold Fushion. Pretty Sure NOS, Eledelbrock, Compucar, etc all use Peter Paul noids with there stickers on the can.

Ahh Mark Up!

You got that right. Being an insider I could really pull the sheets on everyone. However, I just usually state buy the best and biggest noid your favorite company offers. Some will try and claim theirs are better, yes, but usually their big noid is the basic same as the rest. This is not an absolute, though. One company, their big noid draws like 20amps, too much IMO. Then the next company will have a more reasonable amp draw of 12amps on their big noid. So yes they both get them from Peter Paul, but there are different models of the same basic noid. You couldn't tell the difference from the outside...
Robert

[mikepe]

With that said, same goes for these rebuild kits, why so expensive for a few replacement parts that don't amout to just a few dollars. Is their any way around this ? who can sell these at a reasonable price ! There should be a limit on the markups ! profit margins should be better controlled. Companies should realize that at this moment in time people are reluctant to spend the exhorbitant amts of money. Make a little less but sell more quantity.

[hammered54]

Originally Posted by mikepe

With that said, same goes for these rebuild kits, why so expensive for a few replacement parts that don't amout to just a few dollars. Is their any way around this ? who can sell these at a reasonable price ! There should be a limit on the markups ! profit margins should be better controlled. Companies should realize that at this moment in time people are reluctant to spend the exhorbitant amts of money. Make a little less but sell more quantity.

whoo there skippy.....this anit the place for it.

[mikepe]

No problem Jack !

[Heretic]

I'm with Dave!

[hammered54]

o.k. we'll go for it a bit.
the guy that pay's your check say's you'll need to take a pay cut so I can give it to " skippie" cause you know he can afford the 30 buck's it take's to rebuid a 100 dollar noid.

still there?
Jack.