question (GTO Dry)

[RJ_05GTO]

Hello! I just got my compucar nitrous in a bag kit. If you are not familiar with this kit it is pretty much a bottle in a gym bag with a solenoid and a tube that you run to your intake before the maf. There is a cig lighter plug for power and a button for the spray. Please dont reply and tell me how unsafe and ghetto this kit is because i am aware of this. LOL. I plan on adding a few safeties in the very near future but im giving it a trial run for now. I have a 05 GTO automatic with a k&n cai and jba shorty headers. I had a predator tune but I untuned that and retuned it with the predator factory hp tune. I dont plan on using nitrous on a daily basis. I go to the track about twice a year with my friends and just want to keep things interesting. Im running a 40 hp shot to test it out and I noticed if I hit it right at 3000 rpm it will hesitate a little right at the beginning but smooth out when the rpms rise. If i hit it in the upper 3000rpms it does great. No hesitation. I know my spark plugs are gapped way to big because I left the gaps like they came. I found out after the fact they should have been gapped at .035-.040". Would the large spark plug gap cause this hesitation? Like i said if i hit it at about 3800rpms+ it does great. But hesitates a little at the lower rpms. I just got this system on today and have only hit it a few times but this is what i have experienced. The hesitation isnt really bad but noticable. Im going to regap my plugs to .035" before i try spraying it again. Any info will be appreciated.

[Vitamin E]

I know you don't want to hear it, but............

You need to be really careful with that system. It's a dry system, so you're asking your fuel injectors to supply the extra fuel needed. Since you didn't mention those I'll assume you have stock injectors which are almost always close to maxed out from the factory.

Get some bigger injectors and a quality tune that has the timing retarded for your size shot of nitrous. Also. not sure what plugs you're using but you need to stay away from platinum plugs that come stock usually now a days.

[RJ_05GTO]

Yes I know I need to be careful with it. And my injectors are stock. I hear from others running dry systems on the LS2 that the limit is about a 100hp shot before you need bigger injecters. Im going to check the injector duty cycle to see where its sitting at. Im sure the 40hp shot is well covered and I dont plan on going over a 80 shot.
And my sparkplugs are NGK tr55-ix Iridiums.

[hammered54]

not the plug I'd be using.. a little wimpie on the tip if you ask me.
gets pretty hot in there when spraying nitrous and I dont think that one would hold up very well.
might be o.k. for small 50hp hits for a while but I'd keep an eye on them.

[RJ_05GTO]

Yea from what i hear most people run the NGK TR6 plugs for nitrous. Im going to gap these plugs a little closer and see how they do. I didnt get to them today. Its to cold and depressing outside. I will eventually change them out but im going to give them a little while because they are brand new and were not cheap.

[Robert56]

The before the MAF style dry hit on the LSx can work great. I have set-up many and helped with hundreds of others. You just need to make sure the MAF is registering the spray and the resulting increased IDC. One other thing to watch for, due to air dynamics in the intake tract different sized shots can be read differently. That means, a 75 shot that had a great a/f ratio might not be the same with a 150hp shot. I had best results with the nozzle close to the MAF and aiming at it. I went all the way to a 300rwhp shot with nozzles. I now run a dry plate and use the INterface for fueling and timing pull. IMO, the best way to insure a stable repeatable a/f ratio each and every time regardless of hit size.

The hesitation could be line lenght to the exit point? not purging first? One thing to check is the RPM point that the car goes in to the Power Enrichment mode. There is a table for this but forget what/where right now. Some are set at a point that allows a lean spike until the additional fuel gets added. IIRC, mine was set at like 3500rpm, and I lowered it to 2800rpm to be sure I was in the WOT Power Enrichment mode prior to spraying? Try putting your on point at 3800rpm and see if the lag goes away. These are the things you need to start checking as there is no absolute answer we can give.

If this was a used kit I would consider getting a solenoid rebuild kit for safety. You don't want a stuck open noid problem. Good Luck
Robert

[Robert56]

Could you post some pics of the kit in your car? I was explaining how it was laid out and pics would tell the story better.
Robert

[RJ_05GTO]

Well it isnt much to the kit as i explained it in my first post. It is the compucar dry nitrous in a bag kit. Everything is in the bag. It is a bottle a solenoid and a button. You run the line to the intake before the maf and plug into the cig lighter and spray. It is a hidden system. Im not going to use it again until I know there is enough fuel there and im going to add some safeties. I think im just going to build and add on with what i have with this kit. I checked my injector pulse width with the predator data logger and im hitting at 18.0 milliseconds max without the spray, I didnt check it with the nitrous. And my air fuel ratio is sticking solid around 14.75 when in closed loop. If the injector duty cycle calculators are correct im hitting about 90% without even spraying. I might be way off but it seems like I will more than max out my injectors with the nitrous.

[Vitamin E]

At 90% you're already maxed out. I'd be surprised if they weren't already going static in PE.

[Robert56]

Well it isnt much to the kit as i explained it in my first post. It is the compucar dry nitrous in a bag kit. Everything is in the bag. It is a bottle a solenoid and a button. You run the line to the intake before the maf and plug into the cig lighter and spray. It is a hidden system. Im not going to use it again until I know there is enough fuel there and im going to add some safeties. I think im just going to build and add on with what i have with this kit. I checked my injector pulse width with the predator data logger and im hitting at 18.0 milliseconds max without the spray, I didnt check it with the nitrous. And my air fuel ratio is sticking solid around 14.75 when in closed loop. If the injector duty cycle calculators are correct im hitting about 90% without even spraying. I might be way off but it seems like I will more than max out my injectors with the nitrous.
I know what the kit is. I wanted an install picture to show my son. he doesn't really grasp the bottle in a bag thing. We sure don't want 14.7 when at WOT, on or off the spray.
Robert

[RJ_05GTO]

I know what the kit is. I wanted an install picture to show my son. he doesn't really grasp the bottle in a bag thing. We sure don't want 14.7 when at WOT, on or off the spray.
Robert
Ohh okay!! I will try to get a few pics for you. I have the bag in the rear passengerside floorboard with the nylon hose running through the firewall and tapped into the end of the cone filter with a 3/16 compression fitting. No nozzle it just sprays right out of the compression fitting. You cant even see the fitting going into the cone filter because the filter is so far into the fenderwell turned down at a angle. You will never know there is nitrous on the car by looking under the hood unless I told you to feel for the compression fitting going into the filter. I will take some pictures for you it is a very very simple bare bones dry kit. Im going to add a redundant solenoid and a wot switch to make sure there are no accidental hits or sticking solenoid and that could possibly be it but who knows. Im looking into getting a dynotune right now because im not going to use it until i know for sure that im safe.
My predator was showing a 14.75 air/fuel ratio the whole time under all throttle conditions. I dont know how accurate the predator is but i hope that it is wrong.

[RJ_05GTO]

ok ive been checking up on the predator datalogger and the display airfuel ratio is not actual air fuel ratio it is the ECM commanded air fuel ratio so that is why it appeared to be stuck at 14.7 the whole time. So that is good to know. Im going to some more research on the injector pulse width to see how acurate or inacurate that is too.

[Robert56]

All late model EFI cars should be showing 14.7 at all RPMs, except when WOT. 14.7 is by design and the PCM works hard to get and keep the car there at anything other than WOT. At that time a WOT PE Multiplier goes in to effect and the NB sensors are dropped, so it should show a little richer at wot. Mine is set to run at 13.1 n/a at wot and 12.2 spraying at wot; and 14.7 any other time.
Robert

[RJ_05GTO]

I have attached a few pictures of the nitrous in a bag getup. The only thing that is visible under the hood is a inconspicuous black hose and you cant tell where it is going. I ran it through the existing hole for where the clutch pedal is supposed to go in the m6 cars and into the end of the cone filter. There is a cig plug for power and a button for the spray. The solenoid is in the bag to the right of the bottle in the picture and the jet is in the fitting right before the black hose. Very simple and great for occasional use. I personally wouldnt recommend it for heavy use because of the obvious lack of safeties. I plan on putting a jacket or something over the bag when i go to the track to conceal it better.

[RJ_05GTO]

Im thinking about running the microedge controller with this!! For the price it seems almost dumb not to. It looks very simple to wire up but im still reading about how to set it up. I will just run some wires to the solenoid with some blade terminals for easy connect/disconnect and this should also allow me to run a redundant solenoid because i will be powering it by a 30 amp relay instead of the cig lighter.

[Robert56]

That should work fine. The Interface is great, the tuners tuner. The absolute best and easiest way to fuel and pull timing on a dry hit. The wiring and set-up at first can be a little confusing, but taking it step by step you will see it's not bad or that hard. thanks for the pictures.
Robert

[LeonT]

Hi RJ_05GTO.I noticed you mentioned taking it the track.When you go through Tech inspection they are going to want that bottle mounted and a blow down tube setup.It may be wise to do this before you go...just trying to save you some hassle down the road.

[RJ_05GTO]

Yes I know, technically if you go by the rules it has to be bolted down and needs a blow down tube if it is in the passenger compartment. Or it needs to be bolted in the trunk. The last 3 times I went to the track the tech people never asked me to open the hood or even asked to see my helment or if i even had one. I only do test and tune so i dont know if the inspections are different for T/T than for other entrys. They typically just walk around the car and look at the tires while they fill out the paper. I guess they just pencil whip it. And this is at a NHRA drag strip. Plus they wont know that there is nitrous on the car unless they get all up in my car. If I open the hood they still wouldnt know because there is nothing visible. Thanks for the observation. If i get caught i will mount it in the trunk on the fuel tank cage because im not drilling holes in my floor. And there is already a factory opening i can run the nitrous line through.

[RJ_05GTO]

That should work fine. The Interface is great, the tuners tuner. The absolute best and easiest way to fuel and pull timing on a dry hit. The wiring and set-up at first can be a little confusing, but taking it step by step you will see it's not bad or that hard. thanks for the pictures.
Robert


I just ordered the Microedge Controller. I think this little jewel is going to be great!! Ive been reading about the features and i have the pdf walk through instructions i downloaded from the HSW website and they are very detailed but that doesnt mean i wont have some questions LOL. I might be moving my way toward getting the interface which i agree is the way to go for a dry hit but for now im going to take it in steps because the MAF will do the job and with the lean shutdown it should make it a little safer using the MAF i guess.

[RJ_05GTO]

I might be getting the interface sooner than i thought. I have been reading about it and it looks like it will wire up and work with the microedge pretty easily. Im going to read up on it some more before i make a decision.

[RJ_05GTO]

Nevermind taking it in steps LOL. I went ahead and ordered the Interface with the 5 wire LS2 MAF harness. I thought it would be a good idea. It lookes straight forward enough to install and i have the instructions i downloaded. I will surely have questions on the setup part no doubt but it doesnt look to hard.

[Robert56]

I might be getting the interface sooner than i thought. I have been reading about it and it looks like it will wire up and work with the microedge pretty easily. Im going to read up on it some more before i make a decision.

I just turned on my electronics section of my web site as it contains information on the MicroEdge and the Interface (temp for you). i am doing a rebuild of my web. Not sure if you know but I m the sites authorized HSW vendor? But don't get me wrong, it is not a sales pitch as you can go where ever you like, but rather to point out that I have a bunch of experience with both controllers and run them on my personal car.
Robert

[RJ_05GTO]

Hey thanks Robert I will definately read up on it. Im looking for some plumbing, maybe you could help me out? Im going to go ahead and mount the bottle in the trunk because i was thinking about it and i dont really need to hide it from anyone and it will be safer. So far i have bought the Microedge, the Interface, the LS2 throttle body solenoid mounting bracket, I have a arming switch and a 30 amp relay. I already have the 10lb bottle from the compucar nitrous in a bag kit with i guess a 4an bottle nut adapter... its about a 1/8" hose(im not too familiar with the fittings, there are no markings on the fittings). Im going to buy the mounting plate for the bottle to mount it on the fuel tank cage, the only place i found that is at nitrous outlet.
What i need is the main feed line from the bottle to the solenoid. I need one nitrous solenoid with the fittings and mounting screws. I need the line from the solenoid to the nozzle. I need a nozzle and i need some jets(50hp 75hp 100hp).
I already talked to a HSW sales guy and he said it would probably be cheaper just to buy the nitrous kit without the bottle. If you agree with him than that will be what i will do. But if you have any ideas that are cheaper let me know. Thanks Robert!! RJ

[RJ_05GTO]

Well... I can just use the solenoid that came with the compucar kit. I just need some small screws to mount it. I can get those from work.

[Vitamin E]

Question is are those Compucar solenoids going to spray anything above what it came with? They may not be rated much above a 75 shot.

[RJ_05GTO]

The biggest jet the compucar kit came with is a .086"... they say that is a 100hp shot with this kit and they are probably underating the jets a little being that you cant run a bottle heater in the bag and the bottle pressure will typically be lower than optimal( i could be wrong). Im probably just going to run about a 75 shot for now anyway.

[RJ_05GTO]

I went ahead and bought a nozzle and adapter nut, jets and a feed line. I think i have everything i need to install.

[LeonT]

[QUOTE=RJ_05GTO;21964]The biggest jet the compucar kit came with is a .086"... they say that is a 100hp shot with this kit and they are probably underating the jets a little being that you cant run a bottle heater in the bag and the bottle pressure will typically be lower than optimal( i could be wrong). Im probably just going to run about a 75 shot for now anyway.[/QUOTE

Do not put a .086 jet in your car! A .052 jet is 100RWHP,a .062 is 150RWHP.You want to be running around a .041 jet for 75.

[RJ_05GTO]

yea i was wondering why they rated the hp so low on the jets. 5 jets 20-100hp. smallest jet .039 and biggest .086. I put a .046 jet in it. The smallest v8 jet with the kit and sprayed it a few times(with the compucar bag kit). I could notice a pretty good pickup in power with that jet so i think i might leave that one in. Thanks for the info because i have no idea what size jet is for what horsepower.