Victor Jr Manifold for LSx Motors

[mrr23]

finally got mine today. started porting it.
http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/intaketop.JPG
http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/inlet.JPG
http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/bottom.JPG
http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/stockrunner.JPG
http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/portedrunner.JPG

[Robert56]

EDIT: Please check the whole thread out, as you guys won't belive some of the killer installs until you see em. So much great info in this thread and the companion Elbows/Intake Tract plumbing thread. hope you enjoy, and please add any info you may have. Thanks

Great news. Looking good. I lost my pics I took, though didn't do much because of changing to some different heads later. However, i did find some base fitting, to spacer, to elbow pics and custom cut gaskets pics... keep us aprised. What method of n2o injestion are you planning? I was looking at some Wilson 100° cast elbows and fly by wire 90mm throttle bodies, some very nice stuff for sure. Eldelbrock now has a low profile cast elbow that looks promising too.
Robert

[mrr23]

i'll be using the edelbrock 3878 1000 cfm 4 barrel TB. did some mocking up in my car, and it's going to be really tight. i currently only have about 3.5" space between the intake and cowl. and that's with notching the cowl. it's getting to be more involved than i wanted it to be. i'm looking into milling the carb flange as much as possible, to gain clearance.

[Robert56]

That Edelbrock TB is a sweet piece. Yea, that's been my biggest concern doing the whole single plain thing, clearance. the Vette has a lower hood line, however, we have more clearance around the cowl and need to do no trimming (will be adding a Z28 style scoop). I have seen a couple set-ups where they have adapted the MAF to the top mount TB and ran an air cleaner on top of that. But, boy would that stick up through the hood on the Vette, lol. I am looking at the Edelbrock 3847 Ultra low (102°) and the 3848 Low profile (95°) elbows, with an overall height of 3.6" and 5" respectively. The one I have is only 3" and a choker for sure. Furthermore, the Edelbrock elbows have built in dividers which optimizes flow quantity and distribution, which none of the sheet metal elbows have. Man if I could get my buss affairs in order testing these different combos would be an option. Any reason you want to keep away from having the TB at the end of a good flowing elbow? They also have the Ultimate High flow (90°) at 7"s overall, and that would cure the flow as well as give more room to the hood compared to the TB and air cleaner as a top mount? Some of the Vette guys have machined the carb flange for hood/elbow clearance with no ill effects known of so far.
Robert

[mrr23]

from what i've read, the elbows area restriction. there's a guy not too far from me that's using an elbow and 100mm TB. his MAP reading is 100kPA. not much of a restriction. i haven't gotten the TB yet.

here's another person's car with the GMPP intake in it. he had to do some serious cutting of the cowl. i'm looking to not do this much.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t249/loudmouthls1/Done1.jpg

[Robert56]

Nice. The GMPP intake is about ½" lower than the Edelbrock. The restriction thing, for me n/a if I loose a little no big deal as my racing is all on the spray. I think the restriction with a good engineered Wilson, or Edelbrock elbow would be so slight as to matter not. They use CAD fluid dynamics software for ultimate performance and believe these engineered pieces to be great compared to the slapped together guessed at sheet metal elbows, just my opinion at this point. the only elbows currently proved to be restrictions are the shorter sheet metal like the one I have. This stuff is so cutting edge that a definitive answer likely is not out there yet. So, bottom line, IMO, is that the elbows really are not a consideration on sprayed cars, given a good one is used, as a $5 dollar jet can do wonders, lol.
Robert

[Robert56]

Here's the Wilson elbow I am looking at on Phil97SVT LSx powered fox body. it does stick up a bit, but looks great doing so, lol. he is running mid 7's currently and holds a record or two with his sprayed C5.
http://home.comcast.net/~prostreetmotorsports/IMG_1249.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~prostreetmotorsports/IMG_1233.JPG

Robert

[mrr23]

i chickened out on the 4 barrel TB. too much cutting and possible losing of wipers. instead, i went with the edelbrock 3847 elbow as it's made specifically for the f-bodies and the wilson 105mm TB. i'm still going to cut the intake carb base down as much as i can (measures about 1/2") so i can add a nitrous plate under the elbow.

[Robert56]

If your looking for clearance why not go for a new generation wet or dry plate behind the TB? This would give at least another ½" clearance. The 3847 is for a 90mm TB anyway, and 90mm will flow more than you or I will ever see/need. The other issue that may or may not be an issue, is the fact the carb plate kits are engineered for carburetors IE: 4-bore, and running a single bore could cause distribution issue due to skewed air dynamics. Just speculation at this point as we are in uncharted territory. Check out this 360° spray pattern. Somethings to think about anyway, and i have also thought about doing a carb style plate and turning it into a dry system, but...
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/shop/picts/videos/plate/hsw-plate.wmv
Robert

[jmill98Z]

People tend to get butt hurt when you talk about the 360* spray pattern. They act like it doesn't matter.

Anyways, I have my elbow and Holley 90mm in the garage, and have ordered my vic jr. The car is down with the intake off. Can you post up where all of your vacuum lines and sensors go when you're installing the intake? That would be awesome.

[Mike@HSW]

People tend to get butt hurt when you talk about the 360* spray pattern. They act like it doesn't matter.

Anyways, I have my elbow and Holley 90mm in the garage, and have ordered my vic jr. The car is down with the intake off. Can you post up where all of your vacuum lines and sensors go when you're installing the intake? That would be awesome.

its all for looks. We really like to ignore performance and go for the "pretty" factor. Besides if you completely ignore incoming airflow (as in, pretend it doesnt even exist), and block it with a wall of nitrous flowing almost perpendicular to it and point it only at the front cylinders, you'll be in much better shape. makes sense to me

[JoeyG]

Robert I keep waiting to see what your 408 flows to (kpa wise) with your intake setup:drive1:

[Robert56]

People tend to get butt hurt when you talk about the 360* spray pattern. They act like it doesn't matter.

Anyways, I have my elbow and Holley 90mm in the garage, and have ordered my vic jr. The car is down with the intake off. Can you post up where all of your vacuum lines and sensors go when you're installing the intake? That would be awesome.
Yea some of the other plates out there have the pattern directed to one area, not so good. air dynamics being what they are, this one compacted spray pattern can be swooped to one area only, then lean cylinders appear. i do have a couple videos of other plates (4 or 5 on the market) and you would be surprised at how the spray is entering the intake, not so good. what kind of spray set-up you going with? also, what elbow do you have, and why did you choose it? still have my options open for the elbow.
Robert

[mrr23]

well, not going with the 105mm TB. it comes bare. to make it work, i'd have to buy and IAC housing, TPS adapter, and throttle cable cam. so, they had the edelbrock 90mm in stock. have it tomorrow. the 90mm fllows 1100ish cfm.

i have pics to put up a little later.

[mrr23]

in the pic of just the intake, you'll see a metal tube coming out if the carb base on the passenger side. i'll run a vacuum line off of it towards the back. then T it off and attach the MAP sensor and the AC controls to it. the black line off the runner goes to the brakes. only other thing to do is figure out the EVAP. one day, i'll have to drill a hole in the intake for it. maybe on the driver's side under the carb base.

http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/heads/ls6/headgasketonmotor.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/heads/ls6/headsonmotor.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/heads/ls6/rockersonhead.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/vicjrfuel.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/vicjrhead.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbow.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowfront.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowpass.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowpassplastic.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowplastic.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowrearhood.JPG
http://www.centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowunderhood.JPG

[jmill98Z]

Yea some of the other plates out there have the pattern directed to one area, not so good. air dynamics being what they are, this one compacted spray pattern can be swooped to one area only, then lean cylinders appear. i do have a couple videos of other plates (4 or 5 on the market) and you would be surprised at how the spray is entering the intake, not so good. what kind of spray set-up you going with? also, what elbow do you have, and why did you choose it? still have my options open for the elbow.
Robert

I am running an intakeelbows.com elbow with a Holley 90. Plans are to utilize what I have for this year which is an opposing dual nozzle setup spraying directly into the single plane (about 4 inches from the base of the elbow firing down), and a 90 plate as the second stage. I'll take some pics tonight of the setup. This winter I guess I will have a pink powdercoated JR with baby blue lines according to Mike :D

well, not going with the 105mm TB. it comes bare. to make it work, i'd have to buy and IAC housing, TPS adapter, and throttle cable cam. so, they had the edelbrock 90mm in stock. have it tomorrow. the 90mm fllows 1100ish cfm.

i have pics to put up a little later.

Thanks for the pics. Showed exactly what I needed to see.

[Robert56]

in the pic of just the intake, you'll see a metal tube coming out if the carb base on the passenger side. i'll run a vacuum line off of it towards the back. then T it off and attach the MAP sensor and the AC controls to it. the black line off the runner goes to the brakes. only other thing to do is figure out the EVAP. one day, i'll have to drill a hole in the intake for it. maybe on the driver's side under the carb base.

Man you guys have much more room for the plumbing at rear, as I had to use hard 90°'s but up sized them so as not to be a restriction and have two fuel lines coming in from stock fuel system and the Parallel system, but all is hidden and coming in at the rear. Your Vac and "T" set-up is exactly what we have done and got a pretty good pic of it last night, might get insight for mount if ya haven't got it yet. My brake line is the same, though not fancy like yours at this time, lol. Get rid of the EVAP system all together and just turn the codes off, as it gets rid of all the crappy looking plumbing and you can use the one hose running to the tank for an extra return line, if it's like the Vette. Anyway, I really like that elbow and may go that one or the one slightly taller. Got mine all buttoned up last night with some more detail pics and the fiberglass adapter I had to make to connect to my existing CAI which is still in factory location. Forgot about the pics so will have to get them in the computer tomorrow. Man this stuff is getting good with all of the examples we each are doing. Should be very informative for those following later with the same type mod. jmill98z, the reason I have now decide to go Edelbrock instead of the Elbows brand elbow is the fact that Edelbrock's is more of an engineered piece and had taken air dynamics in to consideration IE: internally cast air dam. with that said, I also have to use what i have for now, a very crappy restrictive sheet metal intake elbow that looks like my grandaughter welded, lol.
Robert

Edit: Oh yea, one thing I did while the intake was still loose was to paint the valley cover. I just cleaned it up with acetone and some scotch bright, then brushed some gloss black enamel on, which now looks like powder coating. It's not super visible once it's all back together, but enough shows that a good detail job really pays off.

Edit II: Why is such an important and informative thread doing in the BS section. IMO, it should be moved to the Fuel Injection section. That way guys that are into the FI sprayed stuff and performance will more likely see it. what do you guys think?

[Mike@HSW]

MRR23, What hood do you have? i had to cut the crap out of mine as well, i have the harwood 2.5 incher

[mrr23]

well, i put it in here because it has nothing to do with nitrous, yet.

mike, mine is a suncoast creations ram air hood. drove it today and found it does hit slightly on top of the elbow. nothing a little grinding off the elbow can't take care of.

[Robert56]

well, i put it in here because it has nothing to do with nitrous, yet.

mike, mine is a suncoast creations ram air hood. drove it today and found it does hit slightly on top of the elbow. nothing a little grinding off the elbow can't take care of.
Yea i guess not yet? I showed my seats off in the n2o section at the other site and stated they were nitrous driving seats, lol. didn't get moved, hehehehe. I will get some intake pics up after while, i am going out to start it up right now, yippy-skippy. You were driving your car, so there must be some better more completed like pictures, right?
Robert

[mrr23]

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/elbowbottom.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/tbtoelbow.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/lidtoelbow.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/lidtotbpass.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/lidcut.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/lidcutneck.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/tbmaf.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/vacuumline.JPG

[Robert56]

Why did you cut your air box? looks like it would work with all stock air intake plumbing. Sure like that new TB. I am still stuck running a stock LS2 fly by wire, though some tests have shown it to be pretty equal with the afetmarket, or at least the TPIS TB. Glad you put the air divider picture, that's the main reason i may go the same route.
Robert

[mrr23]

instead of the airlid outlet pointing downward, then having to do a 45* turn upward, i cut it so it'll be a straight shot to the TB. the TB has a 4.5" diameter flange. the lid is 3.5"ish opening. the PVC you see in the pic is 4" inside diameter. i'll make the new air intake tract tomorrow and you'll see how much better it'll be.

[Mike@HSW]

cutting your hood, cutting your lid, i feel like im having dejavu, i just did all this last week. I didnt cut the lid quite as far back, but just enough to cut down on the angle

[Robert56]

I'll get the detail pics up tomorrow. Here's just a front view, though some detail work left to do. You can see how the valley cover painted helps a tad bit, more so in person. With out the Wilson burst panel/carb spacer the LS2 TB actually ends up pretty much in stock location. However, now that it's higher I made up that little fiberglass piece and no modding to the CAI (3-angle cut pieces epoxied together). That is why I was going to have a cust one made, so, even though it would be taller, the ultimate location of TB would be in stock location for ease of plumbing what ever pre existing CAI we were using.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0277.jpg


http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0278.jpg
Robert

[mrr23]

cutting your hood, cutting your lid, i feel like im having dejavu, i just did all this last week. I didnt cut the lid quite as far back, but just enough to cut down on the angle

i didn't cut my hood. yeah i wanted as straight as possible off the lid.

[jmill98Z]

Robert, are you doing all those dry shots with 42 lb. injectors?

[Robert56]

Robert, are you doing all those dry shots with 42 lb. injectors?
10-4, yes the HP dynoed in my Sig is with these (went to 480rwhp on the stock 28's). We can all stretch our injectors by upping the fuel pressure and rescaling. It can extend the life of any given set of injectors if your frugal minded. In the scaling write up is the box in HP Tuner that allows you to enter what ever PSI you would like to run. Then having having the adjustable regulator and return at the rails, i just bumped it up a little. What i want to try is the new Racetronics 80lb injectors that work with the stock PCM/ECM, though they are a little pricey. The argument that running a big Dry hit can't be done with out an aftermarket control for bigger injectors is no longer valid, another myth bites the dust. Not sure off hand how far we could go with the 80's, but likely past what us street/strip guys can utilize.
Robert

[mrr23]

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/airintake.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/airintakepass.JPG

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/cutlid.JPG

[Robert56]

Cut a V-Groove in that PVC pipe, then re-glue and it'll look/work much better, or it's prob just temp. That's why my fiber glass tube ended up 3-pieces and angle cuts at about 22°, a perfect fit.
Robert

[mrr23]

there's speculation of the elbows on the market being restrictive. while logging today, i decided to test that theory out. this is through my SLP airlid, custom 4" PVC pipe to the edelbrock 90mm TB, 3847 elbow and vic jr intake. tables go to 102 kPA. logs shows 100 kPA. really not seeing restriction.

http://centralfloridastreetcars.com/familypics/formula00/intake/hptscreenshot.JPG

[white99]

finally got mine today. started porting it.


everything looked badass last night. the ride was good, regardless of the excessive tire spin

[Robert56]

Great news. The thing about this also is the fact that you/we will be flowing no more or less than n/a. Many don't realize that the nitrous displaces an equal amount of air, so flow never changes, well until we get to the combustion chamber and the extra oxygen is released into the extra gasoline. But most know the need for more attention placed on the exhaust (now we have more exhaust vapor compared to n/a) IE: head work on exhaust side more than intake, good headers of correct size, no cats, good cat back, and the above is the reason. I will bet that piece i have would be a readable restriction, it's just choked way down. The Vic JR can support an easy 600hp n/a, so going with spray to get our motors past that mark should be a no brainer with out having any sort of flow issue. God you gotta love the spray. So in conclusion, the Vic Jr and elbow are good to 600hp n/a then there are breathing restrictions, however, that fact/rule does not apply to the guys spraying and our only limit is how big of a shot we will be using and thus surpass that overall HP figure. Mine eventually will be at the 350rwhp shot. So, a 500hp n/a combo and some spray, yea daddy, the single plain is looking real good.
Robert


there's speculation of the elbows on the market being restrictive. while logging today, i decided to test that theory out. this is through my SLP airlid, custom 4" PVC pipe to the edelbrock 90mm TB, 3847 elbow and vic jr intake. tables go to 102 kPA. logs shows 100 kPA. really not seeing restriction.
http://stealthram.com/familypics/formula00/intake/hptscreenshot.JPG

[mrr23]

FAST = $1350.00 limits seem to be at 6500-6800 rpms

vic jr = $990.00 limits, don't seem to be any. this price included making the fuel line setup.

edelbrock has made a good contender for the FAST.

from the limited amount of data out there, the vic jr might lose some under 3500 rpms, but gain after that over the FAST. being a 408 motor, i can give up some under 3500 rpms and gain after that. don't ever have a backfire with a FAST. that's $1000 down the tubes. the burst panels just aren't good enough.

[Robert56]

Here's a few more pics of some of the details for the Vettes specifically and generally for the others.

This is the MAP sensor using the stock metal tab, but mounted on the last manifold bolt rather than the carb stud as they rec. Much cleaner and out of site for the most part. Just used an extension hose from the vacuum source. You can see the small vac line (forget again what it goes to, lol) tee'ed into the MAP and source. Might change the blue hose for something nicer later.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0275.jpg

Here is the source vacuum for the MAP. also one of the HSW mondo N2O noids can be seen for left bank Direct Port Dry supply.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0276-1.jpg

Here you can see the dual Tees that each of my pumps goes into for fuel supply. The #1 is the stock location Racetronics pump, and the #2 is the Bosch In-line pump for the "Parallel" fuel system which is activated by a WS. Seems a little cluttered, however, I have so much going on in my engine bay we decided to hide all the fuel lines. So, on the Vette you really can't see any of this and the supply lines are black and come in behind the brake booster.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0274.jpg

This is the tab I had welded on for my Aeromotive regulator. also visible is the Wilson spacer/burst panel.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0273.jpg

The reason for my new intake, lol. This is the first and only intake destroyed by a dry intake backfire, and man did I have to try hard to get this to happen, after about 250 ¼ mile passes, lol. Good thing it was a dry shot, because if it had been wet, it surely would have been more violent and possibly dislodged the fuel rails and the fire... Anyway, this is the reason many of us have gone the Vic Jr route.
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee143/Robert56_bucket/Seats%20and%20intake/DSCF0265.jpg

I have more pics of some of the early plumbing, but will post them later.
Robert

[mrr23]

overall buttometer impression is i don't feel any loss of lower rpms. upper rpms better versus the old heads and NX intake i had.

[Trav's_TransAm]

WOW! This is an awesome thread! You guys are providing alot of us nitrous newbs with some great info on this site. I now have alot more to look forward to in the future with all of the knowledge you guys are sharing with us. Keep up the good work. Thanks :)

-Travis

[Mike@HSW]

here is my intake as it stands. as for the vaccuum lines we pretty much did the same things everyone else discussed. 90 degree 1/4 inch fitting coming off the tap in the side of the intake. splits to a 1/4 inch and 3/8 inch hose for the MAP sensor and a/c. Brake booster goes into the last runner.

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9366/08jr7.jpg

[Robert56]

Nice Mike, very subtle, almost stock like. We need some up close detail pics though. it's really hard to see all what is going on with the black scheme down toning said details. also, maybe do another thread and give us the entire run down. The nitrous full set-up and also the motor. i s that a GMPP intake, or Edelbrock, as it looks a little shorter?

What you guys need now is some valve/coil covers to high light all that nice work. I do have full vendor status on my valve covers and we can do any color (black anodizing?), or bare aluminum, painted, and any logo you could possibly think of, or just a Chevrolet, or bare. I can do a nice deal for sure, to get that part of my buss launched and prob will do a group purchase thing later...
Wouldn't these perk things up? The coils and wiring are inside, the cleanest look out there bar no valve covers offered.
http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com/Abear%20Promo%20Pictures/mbrown3.jpg
Robert

[Robert56]

Here's another picture of humble Mike's set-up.
http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/gallery/albums/direct_port/LS1/vicjr/07.jpg
Robert

[Mike@HSW]

Regarding the plumbing, the two lower solenoids up front are going right into the nitrous rails. on the outside of the rail is the main feed line going to the noids. on the inside the purge lines run under the softlines turn 90 degrees and go to a T fitting. The T fitting goes to one of the solenoids next to the elbow. the solenoids on top in the front are a nitrous and fuel solenoid that go to the plate. the feed lines for both will be coming from the airbox area. the purge runs back and 90s to the other purge solenoid next to the elbow. obvously we had to have two purge noids since i am running separate bottles and lines for each stage. The fuel for the plate will be coming from a fuse panel mounted methanol fuel cell.

this is an edelbrock vic jr, not the gmpp. the elbow is from intakeelbows.com and im running a nick williams 90mm tb. right now its just sitting on the stock bottom end. we have a nasty 383 solid roller that might go in eventually, but its not really street drivable. i really havent driven the car more then a 100 miles since i got it last october so i think im just gonna enjoy it for a few weeks till it starts getting cold.

[Robert56]

Regarding the plumbing, the two lower solenoids up front are going right into the nitrous rails. on the outside of the rail is the main feed line going to the noids. on the inside the purge lines run under the softlines turn 90 degrees and go to a T fitting. The T fitting goes to one of the solenoids next to the elbow. the solenoids on top in the front are a nitrous and fuel solenoid that go to the plate. the feed lines for both will be coming from the airbox area. the purge runs back and 90s to the other purge solenoid next to the elbow. obvously we had to have two purge noids since i am running separate bottles and lines for each stage. The fuel for the plate will be coming from a fuse panel mounted methanol fuel cell.

this is an edelbrock vic jr, not the gmpp. the elbow is from intakeelbows.com and im running a nick williams 90mm tb. right now its just sitting on the stock bottom end. we have a nasty 383 solid roller that might go in eventually, but its not really street drivable. i really havent driven the car more then a 100 miles since i got it last october so i think im just gonna enjoy it for a few weeks till it starts getting cold.
I think I can see how everything works now, a killer set-up. Stock block not to worry, if I can get my 6-speed and IRS into the 10.7 range (old set-up) then you should be able to get low tens with your set-up. :D
Robert

[jmill98Z]

Well, mine is done. It by no means looks anywhere near as trick as yall's, but I did a couple things I haven't seen before, and it works. Mike you better go 9's with that monster setup of your's. I'll be hitting my 9's over Labor Day weekend.

Does anyone have some TR8's they can sell me and get here by next thursday? I'm in need of some help.

[IH8FORD]

Here is my current set-up.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_071320080048.jpg

This is what I am going with for my Ram air. It now has a foam seal all the way around it. I am putting a 9" round K&N with the Flow through K&N top.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_070120080002.jpg

And this is my old set-up. It might look Familiar to Jmill96Z.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_031620080007.jpg

[Orr89rocz]

How do you guys feel about putting nozzles infront of the TB in the air intake hose straight section instead of just above the manifold opening on these single planes with elbows?

I have a different fuel injection setup on a sbc but wanted to consider EFI vic jr for sbc for better distribution and power over the stealth ram i have. Just an idea of mine.

[jmill98Z]

I think it will hit soft. That's quite a ways for the spray to travel before hitting the chamber.

[Orr89rocz]

softer is not a bad thing when trying to keep traction but as along as the shot delivers the power its suppose to i guess i wouldnt mind the softer hit

[Robert56]

softer is not a bad thing when trying to keep traction but as along as the shot delivers the power its suppose to i guess i wouldnt mind the softer hit
Hell my dry nozzles were like a couple feet from the TB and it hit pretty good, however, launching the IRS rear and 6-speed is a little different. I think we are talking micro seconds and many do it with standard front entrance intakes and it's really not much further. All you can do is try it and see if it's soft. I have my 2nd and 3rd stages all the way in front of the MAF on the Vararam and you can see this in my nozzle section in web, though these are controlled later in the rpm band and can be adjusted if i think they are slow to get there, which i have not noticed, hits at targeted rpm and shows so in logs. Nitrous travels very fast at 1000psi.
Robert

[jmill98Z]

Here is my current set-up.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_071320080048.jpg

This is what I am going with for my Ram air. It now has a foam seal all the way around it. I am putting a 9" round K&N with the Flow through K&N top.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_070120080002.jpg

And this is my old set-up. It might look Familiar to Jmill96Z.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_031620080007.jpg

Looks very familiar :devil: I really like the setup. I tried throwing nozzles in the elbow, but I think I'm going with a carb plate next year.

[jmill98Z]

Hell my dry nozzles were like a couple feet from the TB and it hit pretty good, however, launching the IRS rear and 6-speed is a little different. I think we are talking micro seconds and many do it with standard front entrance intakes and it's really not much further. All you can do is try it and see if it's soft. I have my 2nd and 3rd stages all the way in front of the MAF on the Vararam and you can see this in my nozzle section in web, though these are controlled later in the rpm band and can be adjusted if i think they are slow to get there, which i have not noticed, hits at targeted rpm and shows so in logs. Nitrous travels very fast at 1000psi.
Robert

It matters with the long runners of the vic jr. With an LSX intake you are spraying damned near directly into the intake, as long as your nozzle is pointed at it. With the vic, not only does it have to go through the elbow, but also didtribute through the runners. I did testing on both. On 100 shot the the plate on an ls6 I went 1.31 in the 60. With the vic on a 100 shot on a 90 plate I went 1.45. To me, that's a significant difference just in the change of distance from the plate to the manifold. Both shots were hit directly off the line, and had no wheel spin. Similar weather also. I am going with a carb plate next year, so I'll have even more results in 8 months :(

[IH8FORD]

The ultimate bolt-on for a cobra.

[Robert56]

The ultimate bolt-on for a cobra.
Cobra? How about Lightning? that's what I am currently searching for.
Robert

[IH8FORD]

I was going to build a lightning But am die hard chevy and was kind of pissed that chevy don't make a regular cab high peformance truck. My answer was to build my own. I am currently putting together a ls6 for my truck.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_021520080009.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_021520080010.jpg
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh233/TravisBill_2008/2008_021520080012.jpg

[Robert56]

It matters with the long runners of the vic jr. With an LSX intake you are spraying damned near directly into the intake, as long as your nozzle is pointed at it. With the vic, not only does it have to go through the elbow, but also didtribute through the runners. I did testing on both. On 100 shot the the plate on an ls6 I went 1.31 in the 60. With the vic on a 100 shot on a 90 plate I went 1.45. To me, that's a significant difference just in the change of distance from the plate to the manifold. Both shots were hit directly off the line, and had no wheel spin. Similar weather also. I am going with a carb plate next year, so I'll have even more results in 8 months :(
Well you know I was thinking about this, and if it turns out for sure it may not be a bad thing. Now you can hit it with a bigger hit off the line and get over all quicker/faster ETs due to over all greater size nitrous shot. what do you think? it's all about hitting it with what ever it can handle on the launch. I was doing this with conventional dry nozzle hits and line length, a poor mans window switch, lol, but could then utilize an over all greater hit. Though I am still not totally convinced about the slow reaction of the hit. If it were me i would do some more testing just to be certain? that is one big drop in a 60'er and haven't at least yet, heard of similar cases, but again, we are the cutting edge on this stuff and what we find out will help the others coming behind us. what i have heard is that the standard carb plate kits tend to run lean in the four corners on the LSx and flowing the kit helps a bunch, or try a perimeter style plate. However, from what is out there the DP Dry shows even distribution from the get go and flowing of the kit seals the deal. Not very expensive either. The wet DP kits are also pretty close after flowing of the kit, though often need additional jet tuning once real world tuning is begun after checking plugs. Just some random thoughts.
Robert

[Robert56]

here's a nice look for those liking the current all black theme. I think it looks OK but would add some bling, maybe in the fittings and/or rails? this is from Dallas Performance.
http://www.dallasperformance.com/DPCorvette/SPlane/IMG_3969.jpg

Robert

[Robert56]

Hmmmmm, a Wet DP set-up going together?
http://www.dallasperformance.com/DPCorvette/SPlane/IMG_4173.jpg

[Robert56]

Here's a very trick DP Wet set-up done by the guys @ Dallas Peformance. I like the way the bulk of the plumbing is behind the elbow in a nice thought out manner. that's what seperates the men from the boys-details, details and more details.
http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com/Vic%20Jr%20Intake%20Pics/Dallas%20performance%20DP%20Wet.jpg
Robert

[Orr89rocz]

i'm considering a EFI conversion now with a new slightly larger cam this winter. If i was gonna do this i would LOVE to have a DP kit like that but i will only run a 150whp shot more than likely....SO DP may be overkill but good distribution is what i'd like to have

Those setups above are sooo clean, i love the black

[Robert56]

i'm considering a EFI conversion now with a new slightly larger cam this winter. If i was gonna do this i would LOVE to have a DP kit like that but i will only run a 150whp shot more than likely....SO DP may be overkill but good distribution is what i'd like to have

Those setups above are sooo clean, i love the black
Overkill, no way, more expensive is the only reason more do not go this route. IMO, the ultimate street/strip set-up would be Direct port wet or dry, with a leaning towards the Dry Direct Port due to it's ease of tuning and simplicity. If you have the money i say go for it. My Direct Port dry was actually pretty inexpensive as I had most everything from other kits already, then i just needed the intake plumbed. Did you also see the DP Dry with the SS braided lines rather than the hard lines like the wet DP above?
Robert

Edit: I agree on your comment on the black as i also like it. i was thinking about having my elbow anodized red to match my valve covers. But know i wonder how it would look with a contrasting black elbow as I do already have my galley cover painted gloss black. what do you think, could it be pulled Off?

[Orr89rocz]

i dont know how i'd add the fuel with a DP dry shot, and to only add the fuel when the system is armed. Atleast with my ecm for my 89. I could make one tune that would work with the nitrous when it comes on via a window switch with my power enrichment tables but off the bottle, the motor would still see that extra fuel

Wet would be nice since i can activate fuel solenoid only when the nitrous comes on, so i get the fuel i need when i need it.

if i was to do a DP shot, i'd want ss lines over the hard lines just because i prefer the SS lines over hardlines ;)

the other option with that manifold is a carb plate.


Anyway, yes i think you could pull it off. My motor is red block with black valve covers, black plenum with a red intake and it looks great in my opinion. you have the opposite theme going on, but the anodizing has a nice tone to it and it will look good with the matching elbow with black intake manifold.

[Robert56]

i dont know how i'd add the fuel with a DP dry shot, and to only add the fuel when the system is armed. Atleast with my ecm for my 89. I could make one tune that would work with the nitrous when it comes on via a window switch with my power enrichment tables but off the bottle, the motor would still see that extra fuel

Wet would be nice since i can activate fuel solenoid only when the nitrous comes on, so i get the fuel i need when i need it.

if i was to do a DP shot, i'd want ss lines over the hard lines just because i prefer the SS lines over hardlines ;)

the other option with that manifold is a carb plate.


Anyway, yes i think you could pull it off. My motor is red block with black valve covers, black plenum with a red intake and it looks great in my opinion. you have the opposite theme going on, but the anodizing has a nice tone to it and it will look good with the matching elbow with black intake manifold.
Wet is cool in the DP applications no doubt, and I support this way to introduce the spray. I just don't like the fuel in the front entrance plastic intakes that were not engineered for such, that's all. Is you car OBD I ?

I also prefer the the SS braided lines over hard lines in many applications. However, a few guys have done some trick hard line installs, so I guess it's just a matter of taste. The hard lines have become somewhat of a movement, something different and wonder how long it's last. Kind of like the all black lines and fittings has taken off.

do you have any good up close pics of your engine bay so as to see this style in action. I think I do like the style.
Robert
Robert

[Orr89rocz]

i got some ok pics of the motor.

But yes its OBD 1 but i want to convert to the LSx type OBDII ecm using special harness and conversion stuff.

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/44108/2121827760096720624S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2121827760096720624HjgSxO)
http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/20907/2786085550096720624S500x500Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2786085550096720624vayRHX)
http://inlinethumb57.webshots.com/23032/2616328720096720624S500x500Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2616328720096720624BZfKnE)

[Robert56]

Very nice clean install. The reason I asked about OBD I is the fact that the Interface can do your fueling chores just like on the OBD II. So there is your answer for fueling the DP Dry on the OBD I LTx platform. Go for it, as I don't know off hand whom has done the DP Dry on the ltx, cutting edge stuff no doubt, but well worth the efforts for the postive gains provided in going this route.
Robert

[Orr89rocz]

Somtime soon i want to talk to you about a DP setup either wet or dry. I have gone near mid 10's and next year i think i want to shoot for 9.99 but its gonna require a much bigger shot.

My rings are not setup for this and I will have to change them out. I also should look into another cam and/or next size up head. I'm not sure yet but I would like to run some sort of dual stage setup, using both wet and dry or just dry or just wet. I gotta look at the pros and cons of all those setups.

I'd love to run that single plane conversion too for best distribution.

Let me write down my thoughts and i'll get back to you

[Robert56]

Somtime soon i want to talk to you about a DP setup either wet or dry. I have gone near mid 10's and next year i think i want to shoot for 9.99 but its gonna require a much bigger shot.

My rings are not setup for this and I will have to change them out. I also should look into another cam and/or next size up head. I'm not sure yet but I would like to run some sort of dual stage setup, using both wet and dry or just dry or just wet. I gotta look at the pros and cons of all those setups.

I'd love to run that single plane conversion too for best distribution.

Let me write down my thoughts and i'll get back to you
Yes there are so very many options and routes to take these days. I am working on a wet vs dry type write up that will include all the facts concerning why one style might be better than another per individual needs. What size shot are you currently running? does your motor have any internal mods? I think off the top of my head, you could safely do a 200/250 shot in dual stage with the current motor/set-up. It's all in the tune and how you introduce the spray IE: multi staging and/or progressing. the DP allows these bigger hits to be applied safer by eliminating the varying a/f ratio per cylinder which can happen when cramming big hits all down the neck. This is another area that the dry hit shines, even above the wet DP, keeping the a/f per cylinder, or EGTs more constant across the board. this then allows us to utilize larger hits safely. I believe once we get past about a 200 shot we have to seriously consider going direct port for longevity sake. Now with that said, we could still run a plate kit as stage one then have another stage DP come into the picture, or visa versa and even add a 3rd stage and allow a hit size that most would think impossible. that's the other consideration when going big and pushing it with a stockish short block, introduce at least part of the hit in the upper RPMs. Why? Well by doing this we have added another safety margin. If we have all of the hit in say at 3500rpm the cylinder pressures spike pretty high and the mix stays there longer than at high rpm. So, if some of the big hit is introduced at say 5500rpm, the cylinder pressures are already starting to drop from the int ital hit, and then we have a total less amount of time that these combined tq increases stay in the cylinder per revolution. Along with these ideas come the timing factor and that's another area we can address the safety factor IE: get a truck load of timing pulled and less damage can be done should anyone of a number of issues arise. these and few other areas need addressed for going big and living and thus having the spot on tune. these points are in fact how my 100% bone stock long block survived between 200/300 ¼ mile passes with hits as big as 250rwhp. It's all in the tune wet or dry, however, the dry does in fact have a few built in safety factors that the wet does not posses. A few things to think about, lol. :dizzy:
Robert

[Orr89rocz]

What size shot are you currently running? does your motor have any internal mods? I think off the top of my head, you could safely do a 200/250 shot in dual stage with the current motor/set-up.

PM sent

[jmill98Z]

Well you know I was thinking about this, and if it turns out for sure it may not be a bad thing. Now you can hit it with a bigger hit off the line and get over all quicker/faster ETs due to over all greater size nitrous shot. what do you think? it's all about hitting it with what ever it can handle on the launch. I was doing this with conventional dry nozzle hits and line length, a poor mans window switch, lol, but could then utilize an over all greater hit. Though I am still not totally convinced about the slow reaction of the hit. If it were me i would do some more testing just to be certain? that is one big drop in a 60'er and haven't at least yet, heard of similar cases, but again, we are the cutting edge on this stuff and what we find out will help the others coming behind us. what i have heard is that the standard carb plate kits tend to run lean in the four corners on the LSx and flowing the kit helps a bunch, or try a perimeter style plate. However, from what is out there the DP Dry shows even distribution from the get go and flowing of the kit seals the deal. Not very expensive either. The wet DP kits are also pretty close after flowing of the kit, though often need additional jet tuning once real world tuning is begun after checking plugs. Just some random thoughts.
Robert

I like the idea of hitting it with as much as possible, as soon as possible. What's the sense in leaving like a bat out of hell just to have the car nose over on the big end? I don't really care if it cuts 1.6's if I can run the # up top. I plan on porting my intake this winter, and while it's off I can put it on the bench and take a couple vids. Might be pretty cool to actually see what's going on with different combos. The only problem I am thinking of is simulating vacuum. I'm looking at going with the Speedtech plate, unless something would come up from my favorite nitrous company. Everyone I've talked to says that plate flows damned near perfect out of the box. My question is, how do you fix flow issues on the carb plates?

[Robert56]

I like the idea of hitting it with as much as possible, as soon as possible. What's the sense in leaving like a bat out of hell just to have the car nose over on the big end? I don't really care if it cuts 1.6's if I can run the # up top. I plan on porting my intake this winter, and while it's off I can put it on the bench and take a couple vids. Might be pretty cool to actually see what's going on with different combos. The only problem I am thinking of is simulating vacuum. I'm looking at going with the Speedtech plate, unless something would come up from my favorite nitrous company. Everyone I've talked to says that plate flows damned near perfect out of the box. My question is, how do you fix flow issues on the carb plates?
Carb plate kits have been discussed at your favorite n2o company, but that's all I can say. speedtech is very well known for great plate kits. If it were me i would be looking at the Wilson plate kits. they have developed a "Fan Spray Tube Technology" with progressively angles orifices that will evenly cover the full 360° of the intake plenum and thus eliminating the four corner lean condition that many plates have. also built into this plate is their famous burst discs (like the one I run in my carb spacer). maybe someone you know is working on something with Wilson, lol, maybe soon.
Robert

[jmill98Z]

Maybe if someone I know hooks up with Wilson, we could do some business :D

[Robert56]

Maybe if someone I know hooks up with Wilson, we could do some business :D

:drive1:
Robert

[Wild83C10]

Heres my EFI Victor Jr setup on a Gen I SBC. I am searching for a nitrous system to run. Robert has kindly offered to help. Lets see what he can do. From what I've seen his work looks good and seems knowledgable. http://www.geocities.com/jcs9614/100_0313.JPG

[Orr89rocz]

how's that truck run? what size cam is in there? Any dyno numbers? I'm thinking of doing that swap and i'm not sure yet, i just want to hear from others who have sbc gen I's and run a single plane on a stout motor

[Wild83C10]

I haven't hit the dyno yet, hopefully this month though. I am installing an LC-1 now so I can datalog my runs with a WB O2. The cam is a cammotion hyd roller, .580, .592 lift, 238, 246 duration @.050 w/110 lobe separation. The desktop dyno came up with 520hp and 500 ft-lbs. The motor feels real good up top with the victor and the big heads. The cam isn't huge so it still has some torque down low. I haven't been to the track yet with this motor so I'm not how it will run. I'm shooting for mid to low 12s, provided I get some traction. I ran low 13s with the old 350, and this motor should have an extra 100hp. I'll let you know what happens when I hit the dyno.

[Robert56]

I haven't hit the dyno yet, hopefully this month though. I am installing an LC-1 now so I can datalog my runs with a WB O2. The cam is a cammotion hyd roller, .580, .592 lift, 238, 246 duration @.050 w/110 lobe separation. The desktop dyno came up with 520hp and 500 ft-lbs. The motor feels real good up top with the victor and the big heads. The cam isn't huge so it still has some torque down low. I haven't been to the track yet with this motor so I'm not how it will run. I'm shooting for mid to low 12s, provided I get some traction. I ran low 13s with the old 350, and this motor should have an extra 100hp. I'll let you know what happens when I hit the dyno.

Thanks for the kind words, knowledgable, well in some areas, lol. But the thing is if I don't know I will certainly turn to the experts in that area and have the connections to do so. We have many, many years experiance running the SBC and was my favorite motor until the I got my first LSx, the '97 coupe. I am working on something currently behind the scenes for your set-up and PM me and I will fill you in. I think your goal of the 12.xx realm as very conservative and believe it won't be a problem. What weight are you running at? and gears/tire?
Robert

[Wild83C10]

Well I was looking to run 12s NA, definitely want to run better with the nitrous system. I'm running a 3.90 gear with MT drag radials at a weight of 3550 lbs.

I'm sure if I built an LSX motor I wouldn't go back to a Gen I motor either. The LSX motors are great, you can throw just about anything at them. My next motor or next project will have an LSX motor.

[Orr89rocz]

well my car is at about 3450 with me in it and its a very similar 383 but with 195 AFR's and a 230/245 hydraulic cam with .603/.613 lift on a 109lsa. makes 400whp and has run mid 11's at over 119 mph. If your truck is that light and can hook/launch you can see high 11's for sure

[Wild83C10]

Well traction is the big problem. The best 60' I had with my old motor was a 2.0, w/350whp. I am going to step up to some bigger tires and I need to play with preload on my caltrac bars. My truck is that light with me in it, somehow. My biggest problem is aerodynamics. It hard to push a box down the track.

So anyone else running nitrous on a single plane intake with a 4150 style TB?

[Robert56]

Well traction is the big problem. The best 60' I had with my old motor was a 2.0, w/350whp. I am going to step up to some bigger tires and I need to play with preload on my caltrac bars. My truck is that light with me in it, somehow. My biggest problem is aerodynamics. It hard to push a box down the track.

So anyone else running nitrous on a single plane intake with a 4150 style TB?
Here's one of the kits I have currently. It is a very nice kit. We are working on some other kits/companies for the near future.

Robert

[Robert56]

As it looks today.
http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com/AA%20Newest%20My%20Motor/resize001.jpg

Mrr23, what happened to your pictures? I was going to link this to another site for the how-to info as they are looking,
but most of the info that pertains to the F-Body is missing. can you put em back, please?
Robert

[Robert56]

All pics are now back up, thanks to mrr23.
Robert

[Robert56]

Not sure if I ever added my little how-to on the intake install? If I did already forgive me, lol, can't remember all, lol.

http://www.robertsnitrousservice.com/drydirectportspictorial.htm#155425938

Robert